Liminal Living

  Follow the Drinking Gourd: A Map Encoded in Song Tom opens with his love of astronomy and the Big Dipper, tracing it to the African American folk song "Follow the Drinking Gourd" — a secret map taught to enslaved people escaping north on the Underground Railroad. The stars, the rivers, and the mysterious guide Peg Leg Joe become an extended metaphor for the kind of liberation the Woman at the Well is seeking. Setting the Scene: Why Jesus "Had To" Go Through Samaria By the time Jesus heads north in John 4, he's already overturned the temple economy and rattled religious authorities. Tom unpacks why most Jewish travelers avoided Samaria entirely — doubling a three-day journey to seven — and why the text's insistence that Jesus had to go through Samaria signals something theologically deliberate, not logistically necessary. 700 Years of Animosity: The Jew-Samaritan Divide Tom traces the deep historical roots of Jewish-Samaritan hostility — from the fall of the Northern Kingdom in 722 BC, through Assyrian reset

In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the deeper meanings and contexts surrounding the famous biblical verse John 3:16, discussing its historical significance, the character of Nicodemus, and the spiritual journey of understanding faith. He emphasizes the importance of context in scripture, the role of doubt in faith, and the transformative practices of Lent as a means to deepen one's spiritual life. takeaways John 3:16 became famous through a man with a rainbow wig. The context of scripture is crucial for understanding its meaning. Nicodemus approached Jesus out of curiosity and a desire for truth. Nighttime symbolizes a space for honest questioning in faith. Doubt can drive deeper spiritual inquiry and understanding. Spirituality involves seeing interconnected layers of reality. The kingdom of God is within every human heart. Lent invites us to explore our true selves without pretense. Transformation requires letting go of old understandings. Practices during Lent can help cultivate a deeper

In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the significance of Lent as a time for spiritual recalibration and intentional practices. He emphasizes the importance of understanding hunger versus appetite, the experience of mortality through hunger, and the temptations faced by Jesus. The discussion culminates in an invitation for personal reflection and growth during Lent, highlighting the power of love over the love of power.  takeaways Lent serves as an annual recalibration of our habits and patterns. Intentional practices during Lent can help cultivate virtues. Understanding the difference between hunger and appetite is crucial. Experiencing hunger connects us to our mortality and need for community. The temptations of Jesus illustrate recurring human struggles with power and control. Lent invites us to reflect on what we truly desire and need. The power of love is greater than the love of power. We are called to embrace our vulnerability and neediness. Lent is a time to displace negative habits with positive

In this conversation, Tom Rundel reflects on Black History Month, focusing on the inspiring story of Ruby Bridges and her courage during the Civil Rights Movement. He discusses the significance of Norman Rockwell's painting, 'The Problem We All Live With,' and how it encapsulates the struggles faced by Ruby as she integrated an all-white school. The conversation transitions into the themes of mountaintop moments, sacred separation, and the transfiguration of Jesus, emphasizing the importance of community, love, and the journey of transformation. Rundel encourages listeners to embrace their own moments of clarity and to practice resurrection in their daily lives.takeawaysTom Rundel reflects on Black History Month and personal growth.Ruby Bridges' story exemplifies courage in the face of adversity.Norman Rockwell's painting highlights racial tensions in America.Mountaintop moments provide clarity and vision for life's challenges.Sacred separation is different from escapism; it leads to transformation.Community

In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the profound teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, emphasizing its counterintuitive nature and the challenges it presents to individuals across the Christian spectrum. He delves into the historical context of Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott, illustrating how acts of non-violence and dignity can challenge oppressive systems. The discussion further expands on the metaphor of being 'salt of the earth' and 'light of the world,' calling for a communal approach to justice and love that preserves life and reveals truth in society.TakeawaysThe Sermon on the Mount is challenging and counterintuitive.Rosa Parks' actions sparked a significant movement for civil rights.The Montgomery Bus Boycott demonstrated the power of non-violent resistance.Salt symbolizes preservation and healing in a violent world.Light represents justice and communal action that restores dignity.Christian nationalism can distort the true message of the Gospel.Repentance is a way to reclaim dignity

In this conversation, Tom Rundel shares personal anecdotes and insights about the nature of light, the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, and the significance of the Beatitudes. He emphasizes the importance of understanding unseen forces that affect our lives, the transformative power of imagination, and the call to justice and mercy as central themes in the Beatitudes. The discussion encourages listeners to reflect on their own lives and the societal structures around them, advocating for a compassionate and just approach to living. takeaways Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not affecting you. The nature of light includes both visible and invisible elements that impact us. The Sermon on the Mount offers a new perspective on societal norms and values. Jesus' teachings challenge our survival instincts and societal hierarchies. The Beatitudes call for a radical reimagining of how we engage with the world. Solidarity is essential in understanding Jesus' message. Imagination is c

This conversation explores the context of Jesus' beginning ministry, the nature of time, the role of prophets in society, ancient fishermen, and the call to solidarity and healing within communities. Tom Rundel shares personal fishing memories, transitions into discussing the serious nature of fishing in Jesus' time, and delves into the importance of understanding time as a social construct. He emphasizes the need for prophets to challenge unjust systems and highlights Jesus' radical choice of disciples from the margins of society. The conversation concludes with reflections on healing and the presence of God among those who are marginalized.takeawaysFishing memories evoke nostalgia and family connections.Jesus' disciples were not just hobbyists but working fishermen.Understanding the context of Jesus' ministry requires a shift in perspective.Time was measured seasonally in ancient societies, not precisely.Prophets challenge unjust systems and advocate for change.Jesus' withdrawal to Galilee was a strategic m

n this episode, Tom Rundel delves into the historical and theological significance of Pope Sergius I's refusal to conform to political pressures in the late seventh century, particularly regarding the phrase 'Lamb of God.' This pivotal moment in church history illustrates the tension between faith and power, as Sergius stood firm in his beliefs despite the threat of arrest. Rundel draws parallels between this historical event and contemporary issues within the church, emphasizing the importance of maintaining the integrity of faith in the face of societal pressures. He highlights how the phrase 'Lamb of God' serves as a radical declaration of God's nature, contrasting with imperial power and domination, and invites listeners to reflect on their own spiritual journeys and the deeper meanings behind their beliefs.Throughout the conversation, Rundel encourages a re-examination of what it means to follow Jesus, emphasizing that true spirituality is not merely about beliefs but about living out those beliefs in a

In this conversation, Tom Rundel reflects on his journey from city life to a deeper understanding of faith, exploring themes of baptism, identity, and the call to repentance. He shares personal anecdotes and historical insights, particularly focusing on the significance of baptism as a transformative act that reveals one's true identity as beloved by God. The discussion emphasizes the importance of solidarity with others and the need for a profound reorientation of values in the context of faith.takeawaysI did not grow up a country boy.I wanted to get out of the city.Fire is a symbol of baptism in the Bible.Worship what you have burned and burn what you have worshiped.Salvation and liberation are the same words.Baptism is an identity marker for us.We need a new epiphany for the new year.Repentance is a profound reorientation of values.We must stand in solidarity with those we help.You are God's beloved and he is well pleased.ChaptersFrom City Life to Country DreamsThe Symbolism of Fire and BaptismThe Epiphany

This conversation explores the life and theology of Julian of Norwich, a 14th-century mystic who lived through the Black Death. Tom Rundel discusses how Julian's experiences shaped her radical theology, emphasizing God's love and presence in suffering. The conversation also delves into the nature of God, the distinction between the world and God's kingdom, and the importance of radical inclusion in the Christian faith. Finally, it advocates for a shift from Christian nationalism to localism, encouraging deeper community engagement and awareness of God's presence in everyday life.takeawaysJulian of Norwich lived through the Black Death, shaping her theology.Her visions emphasized God's love and presence in suffering.Julian's radical theology countered the belief in God's wrath during the plague.God's love is deeper than death, offering hope amidst suffering.The world is not separate from God's kingdom; we live in both.God's presence is often unrecognized due to societal power structures.Radical inclusion in Go

summaryThis conversation explores the unique perspectives of the Gospels, particularly focusing on the historical context of the Hebrew people, the rise and rule of Herod the Great, and the implications of Jesus' birth in relation to Herod's tyranny. It delves into the narrative parallels between Moses and Jesus, the significance of lamentation as a form of resistance, and the overarching theme of power dynamics in biblical history. The discussion culminates in reflections on authenticity and the nature of silence in the face of oppression.takeawaysDifferent Gospels target different audiences with unique perspectives.Herod the Great's rule was marked by violence and political maneuvering.The historical context of the Hebrew people is crucial to understanding the Gospels.Herod's fear of losing power led to the slaughter of innocent children.The narrative aligns Jesus with Moses, framing him as a new leader.God communicates through dreams, bypassing traditional power structures.Lamentation is a vital form of re

This reflection explores love as a disruptive, risky, and compassionate force revealed in the Advent story of Joseph and Mary. Rather than portraying love as perfection or rule-following, it shows how imperfect love—choosing mercy over fear and presence over withdrawal—is enough to bring God into the world. Joseph’s decision to stay, despite uncertainty and social risk, reframes righteousness as compassion and justice as mercy, inviting listeners to see love as embodied courage in liminal, in-between spaces.Chapter BreakdownLiminal Space and Advent LoveLife is lived in “in-between” spaces where transformation and possibility emerge; Advent highlights love within this liminality.The Disruption of the Virgin BirthGod breaks patriarchal and monarchical expectations by entering the world quietly, without coercion or male control.Joseph’s Imperfect LoveJoseph follows the law yet chooses mercy, redefining righteousness as compassion rather than strict rule-keeping.Love Resists Sanctioned ViolenceLove stands against

In this episode, Dr. Tom Rundel explores the themes of Advent, focusing on peace as a central concept. He reflects on personal experiences of chaos and stress, particularly during a planned power outage, and contrasts these with moments of genuine peace found in community service. The discussion delves into the nature of peace, emphasizing that it is not merely the absence of chaos but a powerful force that can disrupt unjust systems. The episode concludes with a reflection on expectations and how they can blind us to the peace that exists in our lives.takeawaysAdvent is a time for reflection on hope, joy, and peace.Peace is not just tranquility; it is a deeper state of being.Experiencing chaos can lead to a greater understanding of peace.Expectations can blind us to the peace present in our lives.True peace can disrupt unjust systems and promote liberation.Peace exists in every moment, regardless of circumstances.Breath meditation can help tap into inner peace.Community service can be a source of genuine pea

He contrasts joy with happiness, emphasizing that joy is a deeper, more resilient state that can coexist with sorrow and is not dependent on circumstances. The discussion also delves into the historical context of apartheid in South Africa and how Tutu's joyful spirit served as a powerful form of resistance against oppression. The conversation concludes with an invitation to meditate on joy and its significance in our lives.takeawaysAdvent is a preparation for the arrival of God into our lives.Joy is not an emotion but a resilient state of being.Happiness can be tied to brain chemicals like dopamine, but joy transcends that.Desmond Tutu exemplified joy in the face of oppression.Joy can coexist with sorrow and is rooted in reality.Repentance is about awakening to one's true self.Joy is a revolutionary force that cannot be governed.The fire of God is illuminating and cleansing, not punitive.Joy invites us to new beginnings and deeper connections.Meditating on joy can help us connect with our true selves. Sponso

In this episode, Tom Rundel explores the concept of hope versus toxic positivity, particularly within the context of Advent and the Christian faith. He discusses how hope is often misunderstood as mere optimism or positivity, and instead argues that true hope involves acknowledging reality and potential, even in the face of despair. Rundel shares personal insights and experiences, emphasizing the importance of co-authoring a better future with God, rather than relying on clichéd narratives.TakeawaysThe majority of our life is lived in liminal space.Hope is not a denial of reality but an awareness of it.Toxic positivity replaces reality with comforting narratives.True hope involves acknowledging both reality and potential.Bad theology insulates us from reality.Hope is born when the human spirit confronts despair.We are participants in God's unfolding future.Hope requires co-authoring a better future with God.Clichés are not true theology but can be comforting.Hope travels through despair to reach the other sid

In this episode, Tom Rundel explores the meaning of Christ the King Sunday, the conclusion of the liturgical year, and uses Psalm 46 to challenge the common Western tendency to treat God as a mere idea rather than an embodied reality. Rundel unpacks the Psalmist’s imagery—refuge, river, stillness—to point listeners toward a faith that is lived, practiced, and experienced in the body, not simply thought in the mind. He contrasts the biblical embodied pathway of spiritual trust with the modern habit of “spiritual bypassing,” urging listeners to regulate their nervous systems not with ideas but with grounding practices, presence, and embodied trust. In a world that feels like it is shaking, this episode reframes stillness as a revolutionary act of faith. Key Takeaway Moments Liturgical time shapes us: The liturgical calendar exists to form us, not to reflect our preferences or current news cycles. Christ the King Sunday was created to resist nationalism: Pope Pius XI introduced it in 1925 in response to rising s

In this episode of Liminal Living, Tom Rundel welcomes theologian and author Bruce Epperly back for his third appearance to discuss his new book, Healing the World: Whitehead, Francis, Clare, and Bonaventure on Spiritual and Planetary Transformation. Their conversation flows through themes of hope, mysticism, process theology, and spiritual imagination in a world in need of healing.They explore how Francis of Assisi, Clare, and Bonaventure embodied a spirituality of simplicity and interconnection that can inspire today’s efforts toward peace, ecological care, and compassionate living. Bruce also shares insights from Alfred North Whitehead’s process philosophy, drawing connections between divine immanence and the living presence of God within creation.From stories of pilgrimage in Ireland to reflections on hope amid political despair, the conversation invites listeners to see each moment as sacred, each small act as part of healing the moral and spiritual fabric of the world.ChaptersPilgrimage and Peace in Ire

In this engaging conversation, Tom Rundel and Kathy Khang explore the complexities of faith, deconstruction, and the journey towards reimagining spirituality in a modern context. They discuss the importance of love, community, and the challenges of navigating conversations with differing perspectives. Kathy shares her insights on embodied theology, the significance of human connection, and the need for authenticity in faith practices. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of acknowledging past mistakes, trusting one's voice, and finding magic in everyday moments, ultimately advocating for a more compassionate and human-centered approach to spirituality.takeawaysKathy emphasizes the importance of love in understanding God.Navigating tensions between love and anger is crucial in today's world.Conversations with differing perspectives require discernment and good faith.Embodied theology connects faith with physical experiences.Authenticity in faith practices is a challenge for many.Human connection is vital in

takeawaysIf a good God exists, why does suffering occur?We often attribute suffering to a greater good.The mystery of God's plan can be hard to understand.Tragedies like cancer and war challenge our beliefs.Supernaturalism becomes problematic when faced with evil.The death of children raises profound questions about faith.World events like the Holocaust complicate the narrative of a good God.Understanding suffering requires deep philosophical inquiry.Faith can be tested by the realities of life.The conversation highlights the struggle between belief and evidence.Links:Book: [Click Here]Article: [Beyond the Pitchfork] SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook:

Deconstruction is a journey many are experiencing.The dichotomy of natural and supernatural is outdated.Prayer should be seen as cooperation with God.God's omnipotence is often misunderstood.Selective miracles create distrust in God.Enchantment in the world is often overlooked.Philosophy and theology should work together.Resurrection narratives can be reinterpreted.Life after death may involve continued subjective experience.Trust in God can be rebuilt through understanding God's nature. SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Pat